I learned about the "13 disconnected" special hand from this newsgroup and I want to know more about it. Note that this is not the same as the "13 unique wonders" which is 7 honor tiles plus the 1/9 tiles of each suit. The "13 disconnected" hand is supposed to be so bad that no single tile will allow the melding of a triple.
So, my questions:
1) I assume the pattern is a combination of suited tiles and honor
tiles, is that correct? Since you can have at most 9 disconnected
suited tiles (e.g., 1/4/7, 2/5/8, 3/6/9 from all 3 suits), you'll need
4 honor tiles to make 13.
2) Does the pattern require that all three suits be present or can honor tiles be used to make up for the missing suit(s)?
3) Is this a pattern that one can build to during play (as in "13 unique wonders") or is this only recognized immediately after a "deal"? If one can build towards this pattern, then anyone started building towards the "13 unique wonders" can easily switch to this pattern when it becomes impossible to reach "13 unique wonders".
4) Is this pattern easier to build than the "13 unique wonders"? How is this scored in relation to the "13 unique wonders"? If it is only recognized after a deal, how is it scored?
5) Is this a pattern that is commonly recognized in HKOS? Because of the Cantonese name for it, it would seem like the HK people would recognize it. Otherwise which style of play would recognize this pattern?
Thanks.
-Dan
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Dan wrote:
>1) I assume the pattern is a combination of suited tiles and honorNot necessarily. Could be 147b 258c 369d... um, yes, there would also have to be some honor tiles in there.
>Since you can have at most 9 disconnected suited tiles (e.g., 1/4/7,Yep. I'm following you now...! I'm with you 100%.
>2) Does the pattern require that all three suits be present or canI don't see why it would require all 3 suits.
>3) Is this a pattern that one can build to during play (as in "13I'm just guessing, because I'm a busybody with nothing better to do... um, I mean, I'm procrastinating, not doing things I ought to be doing. Anyway, I'm just guessing. My guess is that this hand is not something you try to build. It's something you are dealt. My basis for this guess is the related Japanese hand, described as follows in the Shanghai 2nd Dynasty manual:
>Replay ("Nagare") on 9 unique honors and terms -If the Dealer has exactly 9 unique honors and terminals on the initial deal, that's an automatic replay. If you are the dealer and this happens to you, the game will offer you a choice (the A.I. will always choose the replay in this situation). Same if any player has exactly 8 unique honors and terminals, plus exactly one duplicate of any. Or if any player has exactly 8 unique honors and terminals and draws another unique honor/term on the first draw. If this happens to you, the computer offers you a choice. If it happens to an A.I. player, there will be an automatic redeal. As with the other Nagare situations, dealer goes again (add a marker chip).
>4) Is this pattern easier to build than the "13 unique wonders"? HowI'll bow to Alan as the expert on this one.
Cheers!
Tom
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:35:22 GMT, d_lau@my-deja.com wrote:
>I learned about the "13 disconnected" special hand from this newsgroup"13 disconnected" is an uncommon (old) Chinese pattern which has largely been abolished during the transition to HKOS.
According to Mahjong Walker, the original definitions of both "13 disconnected" /and/ "13 Unique Wonders" required that they be completed immediately after a deal; neither could be built during play. Soon 13 Unique Wonders was recognized as difficult enough, so that it became allowed to build it during play. Much later, New Style players allow 13 disconnected to be built during play too.
>So, my questions:The original definition requires 13 unconnected tiles in any combination, one of which being paired. Because that is way too easy to build during play, some players have changed the requirements in various ways. For example, some players require that the numbers be "knitted" (i.e. same-suit tiles must differ by a multiple of 3), some requiring that all 9 numbers be present; some require the presence of all 7 honors; some require 14 different tiles with no pair.
>2) Does the pattern require that all three suits be present or canSee above. The original dealt-hand-only definition is sometimes used in Modern Japanese ...
>If it is only... in which it is a limit hand.
>4) Is this pattern easier to build than the "13 unique wonders"? HowIt is a lot easier to build than 13 Unique Wonders. Take the definition which requires knitted numbers and one pair for example. That one has a 'combinatoric ratio' of C(16,13)*6 = 3360 to 13 Unique Wonders.
It isn't worth more than 3 faan IMHO. If knitted numbers are not required, it should be worth only 1 faan.
Historically, there has been a trend of assigning overly high values to any irregular hand 'just because it was irregular', but when we examine the patterns under combinatorics, those overly high values don't hold any water.
>5) Is this a pattern that is commonly recognized in HKOS? Because ofIt is basically a New Style pattern. It is not commonly recognized in /Hong Kong/ OS, but OS players in some other regions like to recognize it.
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