What do you think is the most 'perfect' mahjong hand?
While some players may think that the Thirteen Orphans hand is the most perfect hand, I do not agree. The original Chinese word for a winning mahjong hand means "harmony", referring to the harmonious state of the regular hand, with 4 sets and a pair. The Thirteen Orphans hand is the polar opposite of the regular hand: it is the hand which is the most difficult to develop (by drawing and discarding) into a regular hand. It is not close to the harmonious form of the regular hand at all. It is the exception, so it cannot be the example.
IMO, the most perfect mahjong hand should be the Sacred Lamp of Nine Lotus hand, because the calling hand (on which the concept of the pattern is based) is the one which is closest to a regular hand, by virtue of being the 'easiest' to be completed. The calling hand is the prime example of all calling hands; it exhibits perfect harmony and brilliance.
The Sacred Lamp of Nine Lotus is the most perfect hand, so there is no reason that the Thirteen Orphans hand should be given higher priority than it, by being able to /chit/ (undercut the claiming of a discard) the former even from a lower seat.
(I'm leaving robbing a concealed kong out of the discussion, because the Sacred Lamp of Nine Lotus can never rob any kong at all.)
What do you think? ^_^;
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On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:16:22 GMT, tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan) wrote in rec.games.mahjong:
>What do you think is the most 'perfect' mahjong hand?4 Red dragons
4 white dragons
4 green dragons
4 East winds
2 of any other wind
4 Seasons
4 Flowers
Held by East wind while East is prevailing.
--
Feico Nater, Netherlands
http://members.home.nl/feiconater
In matters of commerce the fault of the Dutch
is offering too little and asking too much.
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:37:01 GMT, Feico Nater <feico@taaleffect.nl> wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:16:22 GMT, tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan) wrote inOh, how come I'm getting the feeling that you are the Hong Kong person and I am the person living in a quiet European country. ^_^
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com
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That's good, but you should also say they are concealed four of a kind. That way you also get the points for all concealed. It would make it a "kahn kahn woo". The only problem with that hand is if you actually got 4 flowers and 4 seasons, you technically already won a really big hand, unless you are playing with no limit and your hand is worth more. In which that's highly unlikely.
Feico Nater <feico@taaleffect.nl> writes:
>On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:16:22 GMT, tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan) wrote inIf these are all concealed, and you win by drawing one of the pair after the wall is exhausted, I think you have a maximum score:
4 kongs of majors 128
8 bonus tiles 32
selfdraw 2
filling the only place 2
fishing the eyes, major 4
going out 10
Total base score 178
Doubles:
4 flowers 1
4 seasons 1
own flower and own season 1
big 3 dragons 5
double wind 2
all honors 2
all majors 1
no sequenses 1
all concealed 1
3 concealed pongs 1
winning on the roof 1
winning with the last awailable tile 1
total doubles 16
value 178 * 2^16 = 46.661.632
Can anyone do better? Other rules will give other numbers,
but do other rules give their maximum score to a different
hand?
Klaus O K
klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen) writes:
>If these are all concealed, and you win by drawing one of the pair...
>Doubles:...
>winning on the roof 1Oops. I forgot to mention that you must complete the last
kong in the same turn as you win.
Klaus O K
Yeah, I think I thought of a way to improve on it. It might have already been mentioned, but I'm not sure. How about a kong into a kong for the last tile to win? Then you also get points for a kong on kong self-win.
--Patrick
Alan,
Since every author uses a different name for the special hands in mah- jongg, please define for us which hand you mean by Sacrede Lamp of Nine Lotus.
Thanks
Tom
tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan) wrote:
>
> What do you think is the most 'perfect' mahjong hand?
>
> > IMO, the most perfect mahjong hand should be the Sacred Lamp of Nine
> Lotus hand
>
> What do you think? ^_^;
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:48:19 GMT, Tom Sloper <tsloper@activision.com> wrote:
>Since every author uses a different name for the special hands in mah-The hand which is calling for 9 tiles, with
1112345678999
of one suit in the hand.
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
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Alan Kwan says that the perfect hand is:
> Sacred Lamp of Nine LotusI figured that's what you meant, Alan, but I wanted to be sure. I would agree, except that of the 9 possible tiles, 6 of them make the hand "imperfect" (in my opinion). To me, the hand is perfect only if the 9th tile is a 2, 5, or 8. Here's what I mean:
Perfect:
2 - 111 22 345 678 999
5 - 111 234 55 678 999
8 - 111 234 567 88 999
Not perfect:
1 - 1111 2345678 999
3 - 111 23345678 999
4 - 111 23445678 999
6 - 111 23456678 999
7 - 111 23456778 999
9 - 111 2345678 9999
I think it's great that the hand is a 9-way call if you have the exact combination Alan describes, but (using the same reasoning Alan does in rejecting Thirteen Unique as a perfect hand) the resulting hand is only "perfect" when it's the classic "four sets and a pair."
To me, other perfect hands are the all-green hand and any pure hand, or a hand that's clean with a pung of Double Wind (if you're South and it's the South round, for instance).
And since I play the Japanese game a lot, I also have great appreciation for other hands that are not recognized in the Chinese Classical game.
I think a pure all-pung hand would be pretty perfect, too.
In other words, there are several different hands that would fill the bill for my money!
Tom
Tom Sloper <tsloper@activision.com> wrote:
: Not perfect:
: 1 - 1111 2345678 999
111 123 567 789 99
: 3 - 111 23345678 999
11 123 345 678 999
: 4 - 111 23445678 999
111 234 456 789 99
: 6 - 111 23456678 999
11 123 456 678 999
: 7 - 111 23456778 999
111 234 567 789 99
: 9 - 111 2345678 9999
11 123 456 789 999
: the resulting hand is only
: "perfect" when it's the classic "four sets and a pair."
--
http://www.helsinki.fi/%7ekorppi/ TUOMAS
Nevermore.
- the Raven
Tuomas T Korppi <korppi@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote:
: : 1 - 1111 2345678 999
: 111 123 567 789 99
mistake: 111 123 456 789 99
: --
: http://www.helsinki.fi/%7ekorppi/ TUOMAS
:
: Nevermore.
: - the Raven
--
http://www.helsinki.fi/%7ekorppi/ TUOMAS
Nevermore.
- the Raven
A kind soul has pointed out to me, offline, that I was an idiot when I wrote:
> Not perfect:It goes like this:
1 - 111 123 456 789 99
3 - 11 123 345 678 999
4 - 111 234 456 789 99
6 - 11 123 456 678 999
7 - 111 234 567 789 99
9 - 11 123 456 789 999
Four sets and a pair, every time! So it is indeed a perfect hand.
The next sound you hear is me slapping my forehead...
<slap!>
Tom
Alan Kwan asked: What do you think is the most 'perfect' mahjong hand?
Certainly the Sacred Lamp of Nine Lotus
> The hand which is calling for 9 tiles, withis indeed a perfect hand.
[I could not open deja.com for the past few days for some reasons!]
The above hand is perfect in (a) the way it is calling; and (b) the pattern it is to present.
There is perhaps another way to measure the "perfection" of a hand, namely, (a) to make the ultimate use of ALL possible tiles; and (b) win the highest allowed scores.
How about a hand that was itself the "Thirteen Orphans hand", and was won on a "Concealed Kong in lieu of discarding the last tile" of the Game?
Cheers!
--
COFA TSUI
"IMJ Rules" - Answers your questions about rule, ALL BY ONE RULEBOOK
- Now available in PDF format (download file from IMJ Web Site).
<http://www.cofatsui.com/mahjong.html>
--
COFA TSUI
"IMJ Rules" - Answers your questions about rule, ALL BY ONE RULEBOOK
- Now available in PDF format (download file from IMJ Web Site).
<http://www.cofatsui.com/mahjong.html>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Oh Tom, the hand (Sacred Lamp of Nine Lotus) is considered special and
recognized as a limit pattern /because/ it can make a regular hand with any of the 9 tiles ...
^_^;
(Tom, what is your functional e-mail address?)
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:50:09 -0700, "Tom Sloper" <actsearch@aol.com>
wrote:
Did you hit a mosquito? ^_^
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
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Alan Kwan wrote:
> Oh Tom, the hand (Sacred Lamp of Nine Lotus) is considered special andYes. (sigh) Herewith I slap my forehead again, this time in Japanese.
"Chikusho! <slap!>"
> Did you hit a mosquito? ^_^No, my aim was true. Nothing but forehead got slapped.
> (Tom, what is your functional e-mail address?)The actsearch@aol.com address is discontinued. It isn't still showing up on my posts, is it? If it is, I need to change my signature. My work email address is tsloper@activision.com, and my home email address is tomster@mediaone.net. Group regulars are welcome to email me at either one.
Tom
Tom Sloper <tsloper@activision.com> wrote
> The actsearch@aol.com address is discontinued. It isn't still showing up on
I found and corrected that. You shouldn't again see that old discontinued
address from me.
Tom
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:06:38 GMT, "Tom Sloper"
<tsloper@activision.com> wrote:
Tom, some small Japanese kids may be reading this newsgroup, so you should mask the swearword by saying /doubutsu/. ^_^;
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
Tarot Games Hong Kong: http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/com
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address)
I had written:
> >Herewith I slap my forehead again, this time in Japanese.To which Alan replied:
> Tom, some small Japanese kids may be reading this newsgroup, so youI hope the group will not object to me requesting a quick Japanese lesson.
1. I take it "chikusho" is a naughty word, then? All I know is it's a thing one says when slapping one's forehead. I learned it a long time ago -- and it's been very useful for me to use whenever I make a mistake (which I have done quite often). What does it mean, literally?
2. "doubutsu koen" means "zoo," and "koen" means "park," so I assume "doubutsu" means "animal."
3. How do I "mask" this? By saying "doubutsu chikusho" or by saying "chikusho doubutsu" or by saying "doubutsu" instead of chikusho"???
Oshiete kudasai!
Tom
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 07:18:08 GMT, "Tom Sloper"
<tsloper@activision.com> wrote:
Yes. Litterally, it means "devil". But it's mainly used as an equivalent to "sh*t", "damn !", or any word of this kind. Other equivalents are "Shimatta" ("Too bad", but it's somehow seen as slang), "Kuso" (which is the direct translation of "sh*t" ;)), etc.
>All I know is it's a thingAs I said, devil ;)
But another dictionary of mine would rather litterally translate it by
"beast" or "brute".
Yes.
>3. How do I "mask" this? By saying "doubutsu chikusho" or by sayingI guess it's about the "beast" meaning... So you may say dôbutsu instead of chikushô I guess ;)
--
René-Gilles Deberdt (Naoki)
Kyodai Mahjongg 3D v12.00, http://kyodai.com/
Cyber Namida, http://kyodai.com/namida/
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:29:52 GMT, Naoki Haga
<naoki@kyodai.com.no-spam> wrote:
My prized /kango/ dictionary gives the literal meaning of "animal".
"Beast" is a bit off because the definition includes relatively tame animals such as chicken.
>>2. "doubutsu koen" means "zoo," and "koen" means "park," so I assumeInstead of. In fact, this is one of the jokes in Dreamcast mahjong game "Idol Jyanshi wo Tsukucchao". An apparent primary school kid was being corrected by an elder for her swearing. She was made to say "doubutsu" instead of "chikusho", and "unchi" instead of "kuso". ^_^
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
Tarot Games Hong Kong: http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/com
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address)
Hello,
Alan Kwan wrote:
> The hand which is calling for 9 tiles, with
> 1112345678999
> of one suit in the hand.
I definitely agree that this hand, whatever you call it, is the perfect mahjongg hand. The big question is: has someone actually ever completed it? :)
At our little mahjongg club, we have decided to collectively buy an honorary trophy for the first of us to win with a Nine Gates hand (as we call it). :)
Tom Sloper wrote:
> To me, other perfect hands are the all-green hand [...]
Hmm, I have to say that to me the all-green hand seems like a very imperfect combination in the sense that the green tiles are, it seems, randomly scattered across the bamboo suit. There's no symmetry (and symmetry, to me, would be an essential requirement of a perfect hand). This leads to an interesting question: is there actually some reason for those particular tiles to be completely green?
Cheers,
Juha
(Checking this newsgroup again after a looong break. Looks like the regulars are still around...:))
Juha wrote:
> Hmm, I have to say that to me the all-green hand seems like a veryimperfect combination in the sense that the green tiles are, it seems, randomly scattered across the bamboo suit. There's no symmetry (and symmetry, to me, would be an essential requirement of a perfect hand).
Yes, I agree that there is arguably a minor imperfection in that only the 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 tiles are entirely green. But to me the thing that's so perfect about the hand is that the tiles in it are, um, all green.
> This leads to an interesting question: is there actually some reasonfor those particular tiles to be completely green?
I think this tradition comes about for ease of reading the tiles. Just as the dots tiles have different colored dots. Notice how the red stick in the 5 is centered, and the red stick in the 7 is off by itself. Then notice how the 9 has 3 red sticks. At a quick glance, you can tell the 5 from the 7 from the 9 even though there are a lot of sticks on the tile face, due to this strategic placement of red sticks.
BTW, not all sets followed this tradition. There are older sets that use a different coloring scheme than what has now become the standard worldwide.
Cheers
Tom
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Before you buy.
jsorva@niksula.hut.fi (Juha Sorva) writes:
> Alan Kwan wrote:Close, but no cigar.
I once had concealed 1234455678999 after only 7 rounds of discards
(would have had plenty of time to draw those 1s..) but then someone
discarded a 5, and I just had to claim that, as I was at -1000 points
at the time..
Someday I'll claim that trophy..
Actually I'm posting this just to keep this thread up, since Juha was
there when I got that hand. :-)
-Tuomo
ps.
Our club does not count overall score directly by just adding all the
scores up. Instead we use a (very complex looking) formula that makes a
single match's result more important, and that is why it matters
that I was 1000 points down then.
Very much a matter of definition. Perfect in what way?
One hand can be 7 of Millington's 18 special limit hands.
(There are at least 6 ways in which this can be done).
Is not such a hand perfect? Unless of course someone
comes up with a combination of 8.
Klaus O K