Subject: What is the rarest special hand?
From: "Graeme Stewart" <graemes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:35:49 GMT

I always thought the rarest special hand was the 13 Orphans (1 and 9 of each suit, each wind and dragon and one extra tile that makes a pair). That perception quickly changed last week when both myself and one of my friends produced that hand within a span of about 15 hands!

Now, my question to the group is: What is the rarest (or most difficult) special hand?


Graeme Stewart
graemes@home.com


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: Jesper Harder <jesper_harder@hotmail.com>
Date: 23 Oct 1999 03:23:31 +0200

"Graeme Stewart" <graemes@home.com> writes:

> Now, my question to the group is: What is the rarest (or most difficult)
> special hand?

In Robertson's rules that would have to be "Heavenly Paradise" where you must have a pung or kong of

* red dragons
* white dragons
* green dragons
* own wind when it also the wind of the round.

A pair of any wind, and you must also hold a bouquet of flowers.

Cheers,
--
Jesper Harder, <URL: http://purl.org/harder/ >


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: "Tom Sloper" <actsearch@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:14:21 -0700

Hi Graeme Stewart graemes@home.com, you wrote:

>Subject: What is the rarest special hand?

It depends. Which kind of MJ are you talking about?

>I always thought the rarest special hand was the 13 Orphans (1 and 9 of each
>suit, each wind and dragon and one extra tile that makes a pair). That
>perception quickly changed last week when both myself and one of my friends
>produced that hand within a span of about 15 hands!

That hand is very easy to get in the Western game, because the Charleston makes it easy to collect many of the single tiles. Which kind of MJ do you play?

>Now, my question to the group is: What is the rarest (or most difficult)
>special hand?

I think perhaps "heavenly hand" is the rarest in Chinese, Hong Kong, and Japanese. In those forms, the 13 Orphans (Cantonese: "Sup Sam Yiu") is indeed extremely rare, especially when waiting for a 13-way call. I assume you play Western rules.

--
Tom Sloper, Activision
Executive Producer, Shanghai
tsloper@activision.com
http://www.activision.com/games/dynasty
(Opinions expressed are mine, not those of my employer)


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: actsearch@aol.com (Tom Sloper)
Date: 23 Oct 1999 03:14:16 GMT

In the beginning, "Graeme Stewart" <graemes@home.com> a écrit:

>>>I always thought the rarest special hand was the 13 Orphans [snip]
>>> Now, my question to the group is: What is the rarest (or most difficult)
>>> special hand?

Jesper Harder, <URL: http://purl.org/harder/ > schrieb:

>In Robertson's rules that would have to be "Heavenly Paradise" where you
>must have a pung or kong of
>
>* red dragons
>* white dragons
>* green dragons
>* own wind when it also the wind of the round.
>
>A pair of any wind, and you must also hold a bouquet of flowers.

Robertson's rules -- that's Western. As I had written:

>>[13 Orphans] is very easy to get in the Western game, because the Charleston
>>makes it easy to collect many of the single tiles. Which kind of MJ do you
>>play?


Tom Sloper, Activision
Executive Producer, Shanghai
tsloper@activision.com (wkdays)
Actsearch@aol.com (wkends)
The opinions expressed herein are those of the writer, not of Activision. 
http://www.activision.com/games/dynasty


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 03:15:00 GMT

On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:14:21 -0700, "Tom Sloper" <actsearch@aol.com> wrote:

>Hi Graeme Stewart graemes@home.com, you wrote:
>
>>Subject: What is the rarest special hand?
>
>It depends. Which kind of MJ are you talking about?

Let's assume that he's talking about Chinese Classical/HKOS/Classical or Modern Japanese.

>>I always thought the rarest special hand was the 13 Orphans (1 and 9 of each
>>suit, each wind and dragon and one extra tile that makes a pair). That
>>perception quickly changed last week when both myself and one of my friends
>>produced that hand within a span of about 15 hands!

13 Orphans is far from being the rarest special hand, because the hand requires only 1 of each tile. In fact, it is one of the more common ones. For example, I have proven that the "Mixed Terminals + 7 pairs" hand (which is not even a limit hand) in Modern Japanese is rarer than 13 Orphans. (Please see my homepage for the document. It sheds some insights as to why "the hand requiring only 1 of each tile" would make it not so rare.)

http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/Mahjong/mj_com04.txt

There are several candidates for rarest limit pattern:

Heaven Hand
Nine Connected Pieces (Nine Gates)
Four Quartets
Pure Terminals
Big Four Winds

or with New Style patterns:

Seven Pairs of Honors
Four Identical Sequences


>>Now, my question to the group is: What is the rarest (or most difficult)
>>special hand?
>
>I think perhaps "heavenly hand" is the rarest in Chinese, Hong Kong, and
>Japanese. In those forms, the 13 Orphans (Cantonese: "Sup Sam Yiu") is
>indeed extremely rare, especially when waiting for a 13-way call.

I have yet to see rules which require a 13-way call to go out. Under usual rules, 13 Orphans is not that rare a limit pattern, when compared to some others.

"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com  
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot
(hard-core game reviews)
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address) 


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang)
Date: 25 Oct 1999 15:44:48 GMT

When I was much younger I asked my father the exact same question. His response was a particular hand that I don't think I've ever heard of anywhere else. The literal translation was "Twin Dragons Holding Pearls."

It is:

D1D1 D1D2D3 D1D2D3 D7D8D9 D7D8D9

I believe "Twin Dragons Holding" is a Chinese term for two pairs of identical sequences. To get the "Pearls" qualifier, the outstanding pair has two be two single dots, and the Twin Dragons have to be the terminal sequences in dots.

It is probably rarer than most special hands because:
(1) The suit is fixed;
(2) You need at least two of each type of tile in the resulting hand.

I suppose it's also possible that my father was or was the victim of a very successful mahjongg liar. :-)

--
Wei-Hwa Huang, whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/

"Everyone is trying to CYA their butt!" -- my supervisor


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:17:26 GMT

On 25 Oct 1999 15:44:48 GMT, whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang) wrote:

>When I was much younger I asked my father the exact same question. His
>response was a particular hand that I don't think I've ever heard
>of anywhere else. The literal translation was "Twin Dragons Holding Pearls."
>
>It is:
>
> D1D1 D1D2D3 D1D2D3 D7D8D9 D7D8D9

Hi, Mr. Huang. Please post the Chinese name in BIG5, GB, Pinyin, or Jyut Ping (especially for the character for "Holding").

"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com
  http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core game reviews)
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address)


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang)
Date: 26 Oct 1999 15:25:38 GMT

tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan) writes:
>On 25 Oct 1999 15:44:48 GMT, whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang)
>wrote:
>>When I was much younger I asked my father the exact same question. His
>>response was a particular hand that I don't think I've ever heard
>>of anywhere else. The literal translation was "Twin Dragons Holding Pearls."
>>It is:
>> D1D1 D1D2D3 D1D2D3 D7D8D9 D7D8D9

>Hi, Mr. Huang. Please post the Chinese name in BIG5, GB, Pinyin, or
>Jyut Ping (especially for the character for "Holding").

<shuang1lung2bao4zhu1>. I confess I havn't seen <bao4> written down before, so I'm not sure which character it is. I always assumed it was the character for "hug".

--
Wei-Hwa Huang, whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/

"Everyone is trying to CYA their butt!" -- my supervisor


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:04:07 GMT

On 26 Oct 1999 15:25:38 GMT, whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang) wrote:

>>Hi, Mr. Huang. Please post the Chinese name in BIG5, GB, Pinyin, or
>>Jyut Ping (especially for the character for "Holding").
>
><shuang1lung2bao4zhu1>. I confess I havn't seen <bao4> written
>down before, so I'm not sure which character it is. I always assumed
>it was the character for "hug".

I think so too. Thanks!

"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com  
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot
(hard-core game reviews)
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address) 


Subject: Re: What is the rarest special hand?
From: Cofa Tsui <cofatsui@my-deja.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:30:47 GMT

In article <3816ea13.455320@news.netvigator.com>,

tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan) wrote:

> On 26 Oct 1999 15:25:38 GMT, whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang)
> wrote:
> >
> ><shuang1lung2bao4zhu1>. I confess I havn't seen <bao4> written
> >down before, so I'm not sure which character it is. I always assumed
> >it was the character for "hug".

(Perhaps "lung" should be written as "long" in the Pinyin system.)


It is said that the "Kong To Fourth" in the IMJ Rules is a hand that is unlikely to happen. ("Kong To Fourth": You win automatically when you make four Kongs in a row without a break.)


--
COFA TSUI
International Mahjong Rules - World's FIRST comprehensive set of written rules of mahjong, governing every step of play. (tm) IMJ Rules on PDF file - IT IS NOW SHIPPING!
internet: http://www.cofatsui.com/mahjong.html
email: imj@cofatsui.com